Nationalized Health Care

[gizzy]

They are pushing nationalized health care over on this side of the pond. Is it good or bad? I have heard some bad stories, but hope some Brits can tell me the truth about their system.

How is your system working? Does it suck or is it great?

Is there a long wait for care? Is it true that older folks care is rationed and if you really need an operation...the older folks are put out to pasture and not given needed surgury?

I'm not so old, but I'm thinking 20 years ahead of time how this system will work.

Opinions from the UK???

[seabassfan]

8-)Hey gizzy (yes- I'm still here for a bit more time), I'm from the western U.S.

I finally saw "Sicko", Michael Moore's movie on health care in the U.S., Britain, France, and ( :oOMG!!!!) Cuba.

I've seen talk shows over the years with debates involving Dr.s and politicians from the U.S. and European countries.

The American politicians are always saying, "You'll have to wait a long time to see a doctor." Well- I don't know about you- but, if it wasn't an emergency, I'd make an appointment and it could be up to a week and a half before I'd get to see my doctor.

Then they say, "Oh- well- you have to wait extra time to get an MRI, CT-Scan, etc. The european (and canadian) doctors admit that's true; But, they say it's that way because they choose to provide more funds towards basic health care (i.e. "preventive") than to the more costly and questionably effective "fancy tools".

Our politicians say we'd have to pay higher taxes. Well- who do I send the money too? because as all the people in "Sicko" said, "What's a bill?" They never see a bill.

However- the best line of all came from the Cuban doctor at the end of the movie- "What?! You have to pay for insurance and (still) give money to the hospitals and doctors?' 'That's just wrong!'"

Then (lastly), on the NEWSHOUR on PBS- an English ER doctor was in Las Vegas, had a heart attack, went to the ER in Vegas, got treated and released, and got a bill at his house in London for US$26,000.00.

I'll take higher taxes and no bills- so I can have this US$27,000.00 knee replacement done, that I've needed for 5 years now. Especially since I won't have insurance again until I find "Full-time" work again.

For everybody- in the U.S., if you don't work 30 hours per week- your employer doesn't have to even offer health insurance. what a country!

Her's a link to watch the full length version of "Sicko" on line:

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6646340600856118396

[f1diva]

Hey there, just a quick message from the uk. The NHS certainly has its flaws, but the benefits out weigh them ten fold. At the end of the day free health care is a privelege we should all benefit from.

F1Diva

[seabassfan]

:)Thanks Diva!

The argument I made is the same one I've been having with "Yanks" for about 15 years now.

I complain because it's a big part of my paycheck- plus more $$ after- let alone all the very poor in the U.S. who just can't afford to go early enough to
get their problem dealt with so it costs so much that it has to be picked up but the State.

[seabassfan]

:DGizzy- I exalted you for your answer, and I'm going to be quoting you in my arguments here on the side of "the pond". haven't heard a more succinct description of NHS. Good job!! ;D

[gizzy]

I don't believe anything from Micheal Moore. Several things from him are outright nonsense, and totally untrue. His movies are considered "satire" even though they look to be documentaries.

I'm looking from real world people who have dealt with the Canadian and UK system. Some patients cross the border to get care over here. Why are all these Canadians coming over here to see docs???

Let's hear some real stories from those places as to actual experiences. Especially Mom, Grandma, etc. 2 year wait for heart surgery? 18 months for an MRI? We get that stuff in a matter of days currently. I have also heard that if you are older, you get the FU on surgery. OK if you are 30 years old, but some day you will be older. Government decides who gets care? Who is worthy of receiving it?

Tel me if your system sucks or not.

[raikkofan]

As a fellow American I'm interested in this topic. I'm hoping F1Diva will describe what he perceives to be the flaws in the NHS. This is a serious issue in the US right now as our national leaders (and I use that term loosely) are pulling us in the direction of nationalized healthcare.

[f1diva]

Hey there, just thought i would expand on the flaws within the nhs as i see them. I do not work for the NHS so obviously i am just speaking from a personal point of view. Firstly i will mention gps. My own local gp i feel is slightly incompetent. He has even shouted at me once which was totally out of line considering i did exactly what he advised me to do. Friends and family members have also felt their gps are too 'trigger happy' with just prescribing pills as a solution. I myself endured a year of being put on an assortment of pills before i was reffered to hospital for a consultation.

Gizzy touched upon the waiting times. From what i have heard they can be high, especially in areas such as organ transplant, although that is a highly complicated area so i am sure that is justfied. Less urgent cases are also put to the bottom of the pile. My nan needed a metal plate put in her knee, im not too sure what they did to be honest, but after waiting for two years she had to go private as the pain and discomfort she had meant she could wait no longer. I am sure there are many cases such as that.

I have heard many other 'flaws' in regards to the nhs but those are mine from a personal perspective. In the wider sheme of things though, the service is free.....It not only saves lives but also enures we all are treated for in our time of need. As i said, the flaws are far outweighed by the benefits.

F1Diva

[fizzycola]

I've been watching this with great interest.......

I do not work for the NHS either, so am just speaking from a personal point of view.

It is our right, in the UK, when phoning for an appt, to be allocated one within 48 hours of phoning. You may not get to see your own doc, but you get to see a doc none the less.

If it is serious, really serious, we in Scotland, are seen right away...example.... lil Mika (aged 2) got Mumps, took him to health center and he was referred within half an hour to a doc as this is a notifiable illness.

My mum had a DVT and was in hospital within the hour to be treated, my mum-in-law had a stroke and again, was in hospital right super quick.

No charge..no cost ..no money changed hands. No pre-paid bills..nought

but

In Scotland there are plans to abolish prescription charges. A few years ago it cost £6.50 per item on the prescription. Now it's down to £4 per item. There are ways of getting round this, ask your GP to prescribe you 2 of the same items at one time and the cost is for one. I took out a recommended plan that I pay £13 per 4 months for prescription charges. I would normally pay over £30 over a 4 month period for the asthma drugs I need...so saving me heaps. In the next few years coming up, there will be no prescription charge.

On the other hand...........we have a system, out of hours, called NHS 24 and it stinks. Eldest had an ear infection late one night and I called NHS24 to to told to give him paracetemol...his eardrum then burst and it took 3 lots of antibiotics to heal it. Altho when I called the local surgery the next day we did get seen that am. Middle child had chickenpox, again I called NHS24 as her rash turned purple...meningitis?? and I was told to keep an eye on it and report if it got worse.

So all in all.......... nationalized health care does work and I am all in favour for it............

BUT

On another note........as I live in an oil community and the majority of oil workers have a private health care bonus Incorporated in their salary,my hubby is in this and including my family, I have, and would do so again, take advantage of the private care this offers.

fizzy

[raikkofan]

Thanks, fizzy and f1, for sharing your personal experiences with your country's health system. It sounds like a nice system. My worry is that our politicians over here will find a way to botch their attempt to replicate it. By the way, we have inept doctors here, too. More and more it seems that they treat their patients like parts in an assembly line. Your system doesn't really sound that different from ours. I suppose our rate of taxation would increase, but if it were kept minimal most Americans wouldn't object too strenuously. Thanks, again.

[susieq]

I have found our health service to be excellent, maybe having a GP in the family helps. The the walk in centres are a great idea

[gizzy]

Then why are thousands of Canadiens coming across the border for medical tests and surgury? They are paying cash for this service...must be a reason.

MRI...12 month wait...knee or hip replacement...18 month wait...heart valve repair...24 month wait. As you get older, the wait becomes longer. I don't like the idea of government control, especially when they consider older citizens expendable, and ration their care.

Someday, we will all be old. A woman from Alberta Canada said her Mom waited 18 months for a simple ultrasonic procedure to blast her kidney stones. Currently, you can get that done in 7-14 days in the US. They just drugged her up for 18 months waiting for the procedure.

Sounds scary to me...and I'm not scared of much.

[gizzy]

SuzieQ...ask your grandma or grampa about their experience...maybe it's not as bad as Canada.

[susieq]

My ex partner had kidney stones and they were done within 3 days. My grandma had to have a kidney removed and she was seen to immediately and all the years she had to have check-up she never has a problem. However, I do believe the NHS incompetence was the reason she died, I do believe she would be alive today if she was not in hospital after she had suffered a very mild stroke. Thats another story!
The UK now has NHS walk in centres so if you cannot get to see your doctor you just walk in and wait your turn, they also deal with stitches etc. I know there are regions where the wait list is high and the government have put time limits in.
Our doctors and nurses don't have excellent working conditions they are under paid and under valued and work extremely long hours. We have a shortage of nurses and too many qulaified doctors who cant get work!!!

[blacktulip]

Not found this Susie, we have several very modern hospitals within a 15 mile radius. Two year ago I had a double hernia and from seeing my GP to having surgery was a matter of a few week,s.

I have good GPs with a modern surgery and canot fault the system.
In the last three years I had emergency surgery once and it could not have been better,k this included reconstruction of my ear and now (it was ripped off by the way) it looks as good as the other.

[f1diva]

The situation is different everywhere to be honest. My sister had a hernia but our doctor didnt realise she had one for 3 months. She had two or three appointments, she was in pain and he didnt pick it up. She then had to wait 4 months for her operation and even then it was it was held off for two weeks. Its pretty poor if you ask md. My mum had a hernia too at one point but that was sorted out pretty quickly.

F1Diva

[seabassfan]

That's pitiful for your sister, diva! When I was an EMT, I had a patient who walked to the stretcher (stitches problems, but he insisted on walking) and was wincing and limping. I asked what the problem was and he said, "The doctors said I strained a muscle on the inside of my leg."

so I asked him to lift his leg a bit and try and move it towards the outside. He couldn't. So I asked the doctor to check him for a hernia and he had a moderate one. 8 weeks later, he had the operation, after the stiches healed well. He must have had great insurance to get it fixed that fast. That's the way it is a lot of times in the U.S.- if you can afford insurance from a big, well-known company, you'll get faster treatment. $$$